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Published on:

23rd Sep 2024

E66 - Gripped by Addiction: How Tapping Out is the Path to Recovery with Rob Davis

In this episode of the Prisoners' Pardon Podcast hosted by Michi J, guest Rob Davis discusses his lifelong battle with addiction and his path to recovery. Rob, a Milwaukee native, shares his experiences of living a seemingly successful life that eventually spiraled out of control due to substance abuse. He recounts how addiction had a tight grip on his life, leading to numerous incarcerations and the loss of important relationships. Highlighting the importance of spiritual recovery, Rob emphasizes the necessity of honesty, open-mindedness, and willingness in overcoming addiction. He discusses his involvement with Narcotics Anonymous and the transformative power of his faith in God. Rob's story serves as a profound reminder that recovery is possible with the right support, humility, and commitment to change. The episode underscores the broader message that everyone is recovering from something and encourages listeners to seek help and maintain strong spiritual and personal connections.

00:00 Introduction to Addiction

00:58 Welcome to the Podcast


01:15 Understanding Addiction as a Wrestling Match


03:17 Introducing Today's Guest: Rob Davis


03:59 Rob's Background and Early Life


05:45 The Onset of Addiction


06:42 The Recovery Journey


08:46 The Role of Honesty and Spirituality in Recovery


16:25 The Broader Scope of Addiction


17:59 Identifying Personal Addictions


19:45 Setting Boundaries and Staying Grounded


20:22 The Power of Prayer and Meditation


21:26 Surrender and Spiritual Awakening


24:53 The Role of Narcotics Anonymous


26:57 Personal Struggles and Redemption


36:54 The Importance of Relationships


48:07 Final Thoughts and Encouragement

Transcript
Speaker:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

there were times, many times

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where, I did not want to use.

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You know, I'm saying I was done.

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I was fed up.

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I had been, , I had done enough damage.

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I had wreaked enough havoc.

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But there's a point where you're consumed.

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We call it being caught in the

grip, an example that I can use

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is, , I'm a parent, I'm a father.

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So if I'm going to walk my child across

the street, I'm gonna have a grip on

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their hand or their arm, you know, so I

can't, there's, they don't get hit by a

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car or they don't walk in the street, I'm

going to hold on, hold onto them firmly

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and tightly, and that's the same comes

true when it comes to the disease of

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addiction, you know, we're caught in it.

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Hello everyone.

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And welcome to at prisoners part

in podcast with me, your host Michi

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J today, we're going to be talking

about addictions and how to recover.

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My guests today.

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Is going to adequately describe.

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an addiction as something

that has a grip on you.

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And I want you to think.

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Of an addiction as a wrestling match.

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If you seen any before, you

know that there's two wrestlers.

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Think of one.

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As addiction itself.

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And the other one as An

individual trying to recover.

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Now let's just say addiction is a

gold medalist and has gone undefeated.

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Many many times.

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and He is right now

holding down many people.

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How do

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Track 1 - Michi J: we

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beat addiction?

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How do you recover?

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If you seen those matches, you've

seen the struggling wrestler.

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Trying to flip the person

over or pin them down.

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Nothing seems to work.

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This is the same case with addiction.

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It has a grip on a person and it is tight.

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And it is.

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Nearly impossible.

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to recover.

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So when you're looking at those

wrestlers, What do you see?

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When a person.

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Can't get out of the grip.

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He relaxes and stops.

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He'd stopped struggling and just taps out.

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He taps the mat to signal to the ref.

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That he's done and needs

his help to stop the match.

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Well, this is the same

principle you use to get out.

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Of the grip of addiction and recover.

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You need to tap out.

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In today's show my guests will talk

about how he was in the grip of addiction

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and how his recovery came about.

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I want you to listen and learn.

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How tapping outlooks.

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Who is the official referee?

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And how tapping out.

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You really win that match.

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Okay now to talk to us about.

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Addictions and recovery.

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Is Mr.

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Robert Davis.

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He is a Milwaukee native.

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He has three children.

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He's dabbled in real estate.

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He's now a machine operator and

he's also a house manager for a

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faith based sober living facility.

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Rob is also a recovering addict.

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And he has been quite

successful in recovering.

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He's going to share with

us how he's done that.

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Now, please join me in welcoming Rob.

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Track 1 - Michi J: Hi, Rob.

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Hello.

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. How you doing?

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Track 1 - Michi J: Hey, all right.

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I'm doing good.

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It's great to have you here, Rob.

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And I'm just here to listen to you

and have you tell us your story.

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Could you tell us a little

bit more about yourself?

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Tell us about Rob.

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Well, thank you so much for

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giving me an opportunity.

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, my name is Rob Davis.

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I'm 46.

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I was born and raised in Milwaukee.

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I went to a Lutheran grade

school, Lutheran high school.

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, I had a passion for golf.

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, I pursued a career in the golf

business, uh, I went to college to

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become a head golf professional, and I

worked at Black Wolf Run and Whistling

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Straights up in Cola, Wisconsin.

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, unfortunately, I was involved

in a car accident, as a result

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of, the beginning, , of an early

addiction to drugs and alcohol.

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I came home, from college and I started

selling cars and, , three and a half

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years in, I never, never completed.

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My degree was a bachelor's in

business and marketing with an

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emphasis in the golf industry.

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I became very successful at an early

age, making, uh, making good money, um,

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developed a passion for real estate.

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And after 15, almost 16 years

in the car business, I was able

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to, , acquire three properties, two

in Wisconsin and one in Georgia.

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Track 1 - Michi J: Wow.

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I didn't even know all this.

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And , you come from a two parent home

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I come from a two parent home.

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I'm , I was the youngest out of three.

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My parents were a little older, um,

unfortunately, both of them have

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passed, but ironically, my mom

and dad had the same birthday, same

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month, same day, different years.

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My dad was born in 36 and my mom

was born in 44, , March 29th.

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Track 1 - Michi J: Wow.

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Rob, you said , you

developed , an addiction.

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How did you actually

get introduced to this?

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Do you know what led to this addiction?

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, GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

that's, uh, that's a really good question.

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Growing up, , I was, I was pretty

much a square, you know, I didn't

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really drink or party in high school.

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Um, but once I got to college, you know,

I started to experiment a little bit and,

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, I kind of found the party scene and, , I

really had a personality where, I like

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to please people, you know, I like to make

people laugh and, you know, um, Looking

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back now, I kind of was just wearing

a mask all the time, you know, trying

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to impress other people and try and,

entertain them or make them laugh or make

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them think I was cool or tough and, and

I was essentially just trying to fit in.

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Track 1 - Michi J: so do you know why

you felt the need to please other people?

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I'm just wondering, have you ever,

sat down and thought about that.

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Well, today, , I work a recovery

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program through Narcotics Anonymous.

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I go to meetings, I have a sponsor.

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I worked at 12 steps and, part of that

program and process is, , as you work

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through the steps, you're, you're really

kind of peeling off layers of the onion

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to uncover, um, some of those things

that you're asking about, you know,

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like the, the why, you know, and as I

continue to work through the program, I,

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I'm learning more and more about myself.

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You know, the, the more work that I

do and the more work that I put in.

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Track 1 - Michi J: So

that's a work in progress.

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So, yes.

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Uh, it is, it really is.

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I mean, I came from a good upbringing.

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I came from a good family.

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I didn't, you know, um, it wasn't

my environment that, that led

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me to, to drugs and alcohol.

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I like, I like to have fun.

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You know, I never wanted to

admit that I was an addict.

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In my mind, um, an addict was a junkie

who was shooting up heroin, you know,

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I mean, I continued to tell myself,

I just like to have a little fun.

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I just like to party, you know.

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, and as I've, , learned through the

program, that, it's kind of hard

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to, it's kind of hard to describe.

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, Track 1 - Michi J: you don't have

to have the exact right words

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and that's the beauty of it.

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We can just, express

ourselves we can just.

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accept it's no judgment here

because we all are recovering from

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something and if we're honest with

ourselves, we have the same symptoms.

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And that's what I like to talk about

here is bringing us to light and

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learning how to Heal from it and just

forgiveness, forgiving ourselves,

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allowing ourselves to forgive other

people because we're all the same.

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We all have issues.

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We all have things we need

to just plainly recover from.

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

yeah, no, I, I completely agree with you.

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You know, so today, , you know, I'm not

ashamed of the fact that, , that I went

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through, uh, the things that I went

through and that, you know, I developed

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an addiction and, um, now today I can

admit to the fact that, that, once

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I started using, I couldn't stop.

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You know, so, today when,

whenever I introduce myself,

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, that's how I introduce myself.

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I'm, my name's Rob and

I'm a recovering addict.

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Well,

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Track 1 - Michi J: Yeah.

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Some people may think, well, you're not.

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Just a recovering addict, but why in

your estimation, do you need to say that?

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Because I think it's a

wealth of information there.

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So why do you need to say that?

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

um, one of the things that I've

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learned, through the program is

that, , there's three key spiritual

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principles, and today I try and apply

those to my life on a daily basis.

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the first one is honesty.

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Um, the second one is open mindedness,

and the third one is willingness.

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And there's a number of other

spiritual principles that, , come,

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come through the program as well.

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You know, being patient, and, using

tolerance, and, acceptance,

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humility is a big piece.

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But, first of all, I've got to be

honest with myself, um, and today

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my honesty is that this is who I am.

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This is, this is going to be a lifelong

process and, you know, I'm not, I'm not

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ashamed to admit that I'm a recovering

addict today, you know, and by doing

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that, maybe I can, , Encourage, , or

support, , or give someone else hope

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that may be struggling or dealing with a

situation, um, and, you know, maybe give

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them some encouragement along the way.

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Track 1 - Michi J: I like that.

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Because what I find everything that

we are recovering from, everyone

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is recovering from something or a

mistake that as often as we forget.

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Or don't just acknowledge how much

we need help, how weak we are,

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Mm hmm.

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Track 1 - Michi J: that's

pretty in my own experience.

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I find that very dangerous.

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So, and that's that lack of humility.

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Am I on track here with that with you

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Yeah.

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Oh, absolutely.

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You know, and, , the, the fellowship also,

um, Focuses on having a higher power,

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you know, , I have a higher power, , whom

I choose to call God, , and it's only

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through his unbelievable grace and mercy,

, that I'm able to be where I am today.

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I was in and out of jail, you know,

over a dozen times, sent to prison.

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, my addiction took me away from all the

things that I had cared about, you know,

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my family, my children, a successful

career, you know, just relationships

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in general, you know, I, I got to a

point where I had lost, The feeling to,

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to really love or care about anyone or

anything, and it got to a point of just,

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I was living to use and using to live,

you know, and, um, God saw fit to sit

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me down and, I did two years in prison.

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I got out, July 18th, 2023.

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And my biggest prayer daily was to be able

to see my daughter graduate high school.

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and, uh, God had answered that

prayer along with many others.

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And I was granted, uh, ERP, which

is an early release program.

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Um, I should have done more time.

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Um, But, uh, I got out eight months

early after, uh, completing, uh, two

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years and three different facilities.

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Um, and I was home and I was able to

see my daughter, graduate high school.

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And, , yeah, it was, it was

a huge blessing, you know?

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Track 1 - Michi J: So what would you say?

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I forget the president's wife.

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Was it Bush was Nancy Bush.

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Forgive me if I got her name wrong.

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And it was the beginning

of the war on drugs.

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And she had

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Oh, Nancy Reagan.

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Track 1 - Michi J: Reagan isn't Nancy

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Nancy Reget,

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Track 1 - Michi J: Okay.

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What was what?

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What did what did she say?

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You know where I'm going, right?

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Her program was the D.

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A.

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R.

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E.

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program.

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Track 1 - Michi J: And what did

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: D.

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A.

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R.

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E.

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to keep kids off

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her pro I believe her,

um, Her program was the D.

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A.

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R.

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E.

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program.

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D.

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A.

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R.

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E.

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Daring to keep kids off drugs.

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Track 1 - Michi J: Okay.

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And what was her mom?

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Just what?

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It was just so she made

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Oh, just say no.

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Just say no.

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Track 1 - Michi J: Okay.

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Thank you for cleaning that up for me.

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Just

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Yes, ma'am.

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Track 1 - Michi J: no.

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So what And you said you used

it and you couldn't stop and

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she's saying, just say no.

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What do you say to

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Well, I say easier said than done.

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You know, um, the, the literature,

uh, through the fellowship talks

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about, we call addiction a

disease, , the disease of addiction.

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And, our fellowship says that It's

a mental, physical, and spiritual

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disease that we suffer from.

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And the core of our disease,

which is the spiritual part,

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is our total self-centeredness.

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So we get, we get to a a point where it's

just like a number of other diseases.

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They're obsessive and they're compulsive.

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So, I mean, you, there were times, many

times where, I did not want to use.

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You know, I'm saying I was done.

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I was fed up.

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I had been, , I had done enough damage.

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I had wreaked enough havoc.

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But there's a point where you're consumed.

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We call it being caught in the grip, you

know, and, an example that I can use is,

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, I'm a parent, you know, I'm a father.

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So if I'm going to walk my child across

the street, I'm gonna have a grip on

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their hand or their arm, you know, so

I can't, there's, they don't get hit by

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a car or they don't walk in the street,

you know, I'm going to hold on, hold

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onto them firmly and tightly, you know,

and that's kind of, um, the same comes

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true when it comes to the disease of

addiction, you know, we're caught in it.

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It's got a firm hold on us.

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And, I mean, you can have a sincere

desire to want to stop using,

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But, uh, sheer willpower, you

know, will only last for so long.

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Track 1 - Michi J: Mm hmm.

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Yeah.

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And we call that, um, a worldview,

um, cause they're not taking

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in the spiritual concept.

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And yeah, I feel the same way about that.

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Just say no.

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And , you brought that really

clear and what you're saying

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is a spiritual core to it.

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So, and you talked about humility and

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Yes, ma'am.

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Track 1 - Michi J: so you can

have that humility, which , you

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show all the time by, when you

introduce yourself and just reminding

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yourself to that you are vulnerable.

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And you can't just say no,

it's more to it than that.

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

No, no, there's so much more to it.

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I mean, as long as there's been,

uh, people on the earth, you know,

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addiction has been around, you know,

and, and addiction can come in many

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different forms, whether it's TV,

whether it's food, porn, sex, gambling,

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drugs, sugar, alcohol, like work.

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Some people are addicted

to work, you know, money.

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I mean, there can be

so many different, um,

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um, so many different areas in

which the disease of addiction

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can display itself, you know?

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, So, um, I think that's a

really, really good point.

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Track 1 - Michi J: I'm glad you brought

all that up because everyone learn

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from this because everyone is going

through this in some type of a way.

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I mean, we can actually see it

when every year when people do

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a new year's resolution, right?

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Sure.

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Absolutely.

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I want to eat less.

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I want to watch less TV.

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I want to get off, uh, the tablet.

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I want to, whatever it is.

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Sure.

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Absolutely.

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Track 1 - Michi J: Yeah,

that's a good point.

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A lot of people are

addicted to their phones.

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Without a doubt.

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Facebook, Instagram, you know, um,

all those other platforms, you know,

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they can consume us, you know, where

we spend more time on these things

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than we do, , in a relationship with

God, in a relationship with our family

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or kids, um, or, or anything else.

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And so it can just be a

really, really big distraction.

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Track 1 - Michi J: All right.

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And what we, one good way to tell what

it is you're addicted to is, I just

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heard that this week in one of my Bible

classes, Connor said, hi, Connor, if

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you're listening, that you're The first

thing you do in the morning, what do

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you, what are you impulsive to do?

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What are you reaching for?

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And that generally tells

you what you're addicted to.

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We, we also, we also see it on

what you spend your money on.

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We look at your, your bank account.

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Where's most of your money going to?

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And that can tell you as well,

reveal what you're addicted to.

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GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Yeah, no, I completely agree with you.

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I remember, hearing a message from Dr.

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Charles Stanley, about the same, the

very same thing, you know, opening

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your checkbook and seeing, you know,

what you're spending your money on, you

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know, where are you spending your time,

what are the things that, um, Uh, that

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you're participating in the most, you

know, a lot of times people wake up.

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The first thing they do is have

a coffee or have a cigarette

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or, you know, look at the phone.

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And, , I can remember, , also

hearing a message from Adrian Rogers,

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, that really, uh, caught my ear.

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He said, uh, before he goes to

sleep at night, when he takes

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his shoes off, he puts them on.

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Laying underneath the bed so that

when he gets up in the morning.

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He has no Option except to get on

his knees as soon as he gets up.

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Yeah

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Track 1 - Michi J: And what he's doing is

he's putting in place things to keep him

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in step where normally we would do things.

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And to put things in place

to keep us out of step and.

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And we, or we're too close.

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To borders and we don't have any.

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:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Right.

369

:

Track 1 - Michi J: what, what

are some of the borders you use?

370

:

What are some of the steps

you take to keep you grounded?

371

:

I know for sure when you are

saying every time you introduce

372

:

yourself what else it's like.

373

:

I'm a recovering addict.

374

:

I believe that's one of the things you do.

375

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Sure.

376

:

Well, I really I've really been working on

377

:

prayer meditation

378

:

Track 1 - Michi J: Mm

379

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

the way that I pray Not just praying

380

:

for myself or praying for things or to

accomplish things or receive things But

381

:

I've really learned how to pray Uh, more

and more consistently for other people.

382

:

Um, Not for myself.

383

:

Track 1 - Michi J: I'm gonna break that

down a little bit because I'm sorry to

384

:

interrupt you because so many people

think that When they hear that some people

385

:

are going to automatically get turned

off and say, oh, this is just religious.

386

:

I'm not religious, but everybody

is religious in some way or form.

387

:

It's just what you do continuously.

388

:

You're that's that's your religion.

389

:

So, to clear that up, why,

why do you pray and meditate?

390

:

What is it doing right then and there?

391

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Well, um, for me, and I

392

:

can only speak for myself.

393

:

Um, I know where I was, you know, and

I know that, , surrender is another key

394

:

that we focus on, , at the fellowship,

you know, , not having to fight anymore.

395

:

And today I consistently pray for God's

will to be done in my life instead of

396

:

me trying to take control over what's

going to happen or of certain situations.

397

:

But, um, The way that I was thinking,

the way that I was acting and

398

:

living, , got me to where I was.

399

:

Jails, institutions, and,

spiritual death, you know?

400

:

, And the only one who, , was able

to bring me through that, was God.

401

:

You know, so, he never left me.

402

:

I left him by walking away.

403

:

I was raised, you know, in church.

404

:

I went to a Lutheran grade

school, K through 12.

405

:

I went to a Lutheran

high school in Wauwatosa.

406

:

I went to Wisconsin

Lutheran, graduated in 96.

407

:

So I always had faith, you

know, I went to college.

408

:

I kind of distanced myself from that.

409

:

Um, You know, really got stuck in,

in the worldview of, you know, doing

410

:

what I wanted to do, have fun, you

know, enjoy yourself, you know.

411

:

Um, and then I got,

412

:

Track 1 - Michi J: I like,

413

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

well, yeah,

414

:

Track 1 - Michi J: I was going to

go back, sorry about that, that we,

415

:

where did you get your faith from?

416

:

Like, did you grow up in some sort of,

um, Christian or, you know, spiritual

417

:

atmosphere to get you to go back to that?

418

:

So, and you made a good point.

419

:

The first you talked about.

420

:

, you're recovering at it.

421

:

You always introduce yourself that way.

422

:

It's bringing forth honesty,

open mindedness, willingness

423

:

and humility right there.

424

:

First, you're, you're out of your,

your self independence, which is

425

:

contrary, which is opposite of what

the world and what, uh, dare would

426

:

say, just say no, because now you're

427

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

right.

428

:

Track 1 - Michi J: that you're

not, you have to Not just look

429

:

at things about yourself because

you couldn't buy yourself.

430

:

she was saying, just say no.

431

:

So you couldn't do it by yourself.

432

:

So this

433

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

No, not at all.

434

:

Track 1 - Michi J: spiritual, which

led you to the spiritual side, right?

435

:

Um, something out outside of yourself.

436

:

So you had to pray and meditate and

you're saying you had to spend time

437

:

with God because you're praying to who?

438

:

Who are you praying to?

439

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

I was praying that, to my higher

440

:

power, who I choose to call God, you

know, , I believe that, , Jesus died

441

:

and, and, , rose on the third day,

and, , he's forgiven me for my sins.

442

:

The Bible says that our sins are as

far as the east is from the west.

443

:

So, um, I'm very grateful that, uh,

that today I can, uh, look back.

444

:

And, forgive myself, you know, for

the harm that I caused, uh, my family,

445

:

my friends, my employers, myself, you

know, um, and so today I choose to, to

446

:

give back, I, uh, I do service work.

447

:

I volunteer through narcotics anonymous,

um, and a program we call H and I, which

448

:

is hospitals and institutions where we

take the, , and a message into, treatment

449

:

centers, hospitals, recovery centers.

450

:

Um, and we're currently working on getting

back into the DOC to introduce the NA

451

:

message,, to let other addicts know that,

That we can stop using drugs, we can lose

452

:

the desire to use, and we can find a new

way to live, you know, so we try and, uh,

453

:

go into these facilities and share our

experience, our strength, and our hope,

454

:

. Track 1 - Michi J: So the name

of this program is what again?

455

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Narcotics Anonymous is the fellowship

456

:

that I belong to, and then we have

a division Or a branch called H and

457

:

I, uh, and those that's abbreviated

hospitals and institutions.

458

:

So we go into,

459

:

Track 1 - Michi J: Is it faith based?

460

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

uh, it's not, it's the, the program is,

461

:

the spiritual program, not religious.

462

:

So, um, it, uh, it's

not a Christian program.

463

:

It isn't a faith based program.

464

:

It's a spiritual program.

465

:

That, um, is founded on

spiritual principles.

466

:

So,

467

:

Track 1 - Michi J: hmm.

468

:

And you choose, it's just, it

gives a person to choose who they

469

:

look to as the spiritual power.

470

:

I mean, higher power, is that it?

471

:

That's the difference?

472

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

yeah, the, the program, um, suggests

473

:

that, um, we get a higher power and we

can choose, you know, the higher power

474

:

is up to us to choose, you know, the

only requirements are that it's loving

475

:

and caring and greater than ourselves.

476

:

So, um, it isn't inclusive.

477

:

It isn't exclusive, you know, um, but for

me, I choose to call my higher power God,

478

:

you know, uh, and a number of people do.

479

:

Track 1 - Michi J: yeah.

480

:

So with that in mind, did you go to

any programs outside of this one that

481

:

did not include the spiritual core?

482

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Um, I went to a treatment center

483

:

in, um, Prescott, Arizona.

484

:

Um, it was a sober living facility,

but it was not a faith based.

485

:

Track 1 - Michi J: Do you

find it a big difference?

486

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Um, for me personally, I do.

487

:

Because, um, I know that I was created.

488

:

I know that I have a creator, you

know, and I know that I have a purpose.

489

:

So today I'm trying to fulfill my purpose.

490

:

I've been able to look to others,

, follow some directions, take some

491

:

suggestions, and by the grace of God,

I've been able to find a new way to live.

492

:

So yesterday I actually celebrated

33 months clean and sober.

493

:

Track 1 - Michi J: Oh, wow.

494

:

Congratulations.

495

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Yeah.

496

:

Thank you.

497

:

Track 1 - Michi J: That's, that's a good

accomplishment and great accomplishment.

498

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Yeah, like I said, I'm 46 and, I've been

499

:

in and out of treatments, , a few times.

500

:

Um, I was at a treatment center in

Milwaukee on Capitol Drive, I was

501

:

there 89 days, my mom passed away.

502

:

Um, I didn't know how to deal

with that, you know, I didn't know

503

:

how to handle those feelings and

emotions, , because she passed away

504

:

all of a sudden over a weekend.

505

:

Uh, and I relapsed, you know, and

I went back out to the streets, for

506

:

a year and a half, two years, you

know, got arrested a number of times.

507

:

Um, I went to a sober living in, in

Waukesha,, I was there 11 months, that

508

:

was the longest amount of sobriety I'd

ever had, you know, uh, as an adult, I

509

:

was 30 something, And I relapsed, lost my

apartment, lost my car, lost everything.

510

:

And, um, you know, it took another

couple of years of being homeless, living

511

:

on the streets, working the door at

different spots, you know, just doing

512

:

whatever I could do to, to get one more,

you know, um, And God finally saw fit

513

:

to, , sit me down for a couple of years.

514

:

Um, finally got a prison sentence,

you know, the judge really read me the

515

:

riot act and told me that I had wreaked

havoc all over Southeastern Wisconsin.

516

:

You know, um, I had been boosting

for a number of years and, you know,

517

:

stolen substantially from all over the

state on probation in four counties.

518

:

So, you know, I was, um, I

mean, I was out of my mind.

519

:

I was out of control, you know,

and nothing could stop me except,

520

:

um, God put me in a prison cell.

521

:

Track 1 - Michi J: Audience.

522

:

I want you to know that.

523

:

It's so easy for us to just put

things aside and say, oh, this is just

524

:

this person's issue or problem and

that's not me and things like that.

525

:

But we are doing the same

things in our own addictions.

526

:

We relapse all the time.

527

:

We need to look at it that way.

528

:

So that's why I'm, saying this and to,

get Rob to give us some more detail on

529

:

how he was able to overcome his addiction,

because this is one of the stronger ones.

530

:

So if he can overcome this

addiction and , what he's been

531

:

going through, that's going to help.

532

:

Everyone, so he did say admitting

it, being humble about it and just

533

:

being honest and open minded like

he's doing here understanding is

534

:

a spiritual concept because it's

not like Nancy Reagan just say no.

535

:

, it's a grip.

536

:

So is he wants to say no, we

want to say no, everybody else

537

:

can, , we can attest to that.

538

:

But he had to spend time with

God because you say he set you

539

:

down, which is incarceration.

540

:

And a lot of people, we'll say that it's

not a good thing to incarcerate people.

541

:

And it's not, it can be good or bad.

542

:

It just depends.

543

:

But I think it gave you a time to.

544

:

sit back and pray and meditate.

545

:

Whereas you probably wouldn't

have that time to do that.

546

:

And you were forced to do it

at this point where you were.

547

:

Able to listen to God, God

does that as a heavenly father.

548

:

He will sit you down and to

get a chance to pour into you,

549

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

you know, I completely

550

:

agree, you know, um.

551

:

Because if I wasn't, uh, I mean, I wasn't

at a point where I could stop on my own,

552

:

you know, um, if I, I honestly believe

that, um, if I didn't go to prison, if I

553

:

really didn't get that, uh, that level of

punishment, it would, it would have just

554

:

been a matter of time, you know, before I,

uh, continued doing what I had been doing.

555

:

So,

556

:

Track 1 - Michi J: makes sense.

557

:

Which makes sense.

558

:

That's, that's going to be the natural

order of things as people would

559

:

say that science and that is true.

560

:

So again, you.

561

:

You were being humble now, you're

actually being transparent, even

562

:

now, open minded, understanding

that you couldn't do it on your own.

563

:

And that's really not what the

world would say, and not what our

564

:

actions would say our behavior.

565

:

We, we actually try to live out,

just say, no, meaning that I'm

566

:

just going to do it by myself.

567

:

I'm going to do it.

568

:

Go by myself.

569

:

I can do it when I want to and I can

do it this way in there and it's no

570

:

where anybody can do it themselves.

571

:

So, I like how you are going

into detail about that and how

572

:

you had to have a higher power.

573

:

Someone outside of yourself to help.

574

:

You pray and meditate and what are

some of the things you meditated on?

575

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

well, um, the first thing is, just.

576

:

Being able to surrender, for a long time.

577

:

Um, I was a fighter, you know, I had

the mentality of, you know, not giving

578

:

up, not taking no for an answer, you

know, , never that's a sign of weakness.

579

:

You know, you're soft if you give up.

580

:

, and I think that's kind of, um, How

a lot of men view things today too.

581

:

I mean, even, for example, when

I was married, you know, uh,

582

:

asking for directions, you know,

taking guidance, it's like, I'm

583

:

going to tell my wife at the time.

584

:

I know where we're going, you

know, and I'm driving in a circle

585

:

for 20 minutes, you know, cause

I don't, I don't feel manly.

586

:

I don't feel like a man if I

have to ask for help, and today

587

:

I realized that it takes more courage

to ask for help to let someone

588

:

know that, you know, , you do have

vulnerabilities, you know, and surrender

589

:

means I don't have to fight anymore.

590

:

that was a huge hurdle for me to overcome.

591

:

Um, because I never wanted to give up.

592

:

I never wanted to be soft.

593

:

And I wanted to portray an image of,

of being tough and, macho, you know,

594

:

I mean, for a long time, I had a big,

big ego, and there are still times today

595

:

where, you know, I deal with that as a,

as a character defect, or a shortcoming,

596

:

um, but, praying, , and meditating,

and asking God to remove some of these

597

:

things, you know, Being conceited,

being arrogant, you know, thinking I

598

:

know it all, you know, not wanting to

ask for help, thinking that I'm smarter

599

:

or better looking or more successful,

you know, pride is another one,

600

:

and I think that's why God took

some of the gifts and the blessings

601

:

away from me that he had given me.

602

:

I had, um, I had owned three properties

by the time I was 28, had made six

603

:

figures six times, you know, and

from the world standpoint, I was very

604

:

successful, you know, at an inground

swimming pool, nine feet deep with a

605

:

diving board, had a four car garage.

606

:

You know, I had a beautiful home in

Pewaukee, um, had a vacation home

607

:

in Georgia, six acres on a mountain,

608

:

Track 1 - Michi J: Mm

609

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

um, paid a 1, 700

610

:

mortgage for seven years.

611

:

And we would go there for 10 days a

year over Easter, you know, with my

612

:

ex wife and our kids and my nieces.

613

:

, and I really had put God off to the

side and not given him thanks, for,

614

:

, the gifts that he had given me and,

and he had, uh, blessed me with.

615

:

And, and, and trusted me with, and I was

taking credit for a lot of these things

616

:

on my, on my own, like I did this, I have

this, I have these properties, I make this

617

:

much, I, I, I, me, me, me, my, my, my.

618

:

And slowly, yeah, and then

slowly he, he, he took them

619

:

away, you know, one at a time,

620

:

Track 1 - Michi J: I like that

you, said, success can be just

621

:

as much of a trap as being poor.

622

:

Yeah.

623

:

Both of those skills.

624

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

without a doubt.

625

:

Yeah, I mean, I can have a big

bank account and a nice 401k, um,

626

:

and be spiritually broken and be

spiritually bankrupt, you know,

627

:

and what does all that give me?

628

:

You know, nothing, you know, cause sooner

or later, , I can't take it with me.

629

:

And you realize that, you know, life

is more than, uh, finances and 401ks,

630

:

you know, today, um, I'm happier than

I was making, you know, a half that

631

:

money, you know, because, um, I, I

look at relationships as more valuable.

632

:

Then income today, you know, relationships

with my children, um, relationships

633

:

with, , some of the men here at

the house, you know, being able to

634

:

encourage and support and give back

and, uh, help other recovering addicts.

635

:

You know, to me, that's success.

636

:

If I can, if I can help someone

else to, , find a new way to live.

637

:

And to change old behaviors and, and,

and put down the drugs and alcohol.

638

:

And, you know, to me,

that's more rewarding than.

639

:

You know, selling X amount of cars or

making 10, 000 in a month, you know,

640

:

because at the end of the day, you know,

that there's no, there's no joy in that,

641

:

you know, and you're back on that hamster

wheel of chasing and chasing and, and

642

:

my, for me, um, it, it, it, it distracted

me from what my real focus was, what

643

:

my real purpose is, you know, that's to

give back and to, and to help others.

644

:

Track 1 - Michi J: I like that you

pointed out relationships because we

645

:

need those relationships back you said

you had a hard time forgiving yourself.

646

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Yeah, I did.

647

:

I, um, I was at I was in

treatment when my mom passed away.

648

:

Um, I was 89 days clean and sober.

649

:

And at that time, that was the longest

amount of sobriety I'd ever had.

650

:

And she passed.

651

:

, I went to her funeral.

652

:

but as the next few years went on, My

addiction grew, you know, and I was, I was

653

:

caught deeper and deeper in this, dilemma.

654

:

And, my father passed away while I was

incarcerated and I wasn't able to attend

655

:

his funeral because, I was in prison.

656

:

Track 1 - Michi J: When you

said, forgiving yourself

657

:

because I have, you know, I hear

that a lot and it makes sense.

658

:

So were you angry at yourself?

659

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Yeah.

660

:

I was angry at myself.

661

:

I was, uh, disappointed at myself,

um, for not just, you know, letting

662

:

me down, but letting my parents down,

uh, letting my family down, letting my

663

:

children down, being absent, you know,

missing, uh, school events and, uh, a

664

:

number of things that I had participated

in, you know, uh, in the years prior.

665

:

So, it's, it's like a friend of mine

told me once, um, it's easier to, it's

666

:

easier to look out the window than it

is to look in the mirror, you know, um,

667

:

and you know, it's so true, you know,

but regarding the forgiveness piece,

668

:

you know, I have to realize that I am

forgiven, you know, and in order for,

669

:

uh, I've got to accept that, you know,

God has forgiven me for what I've done.

670

:

And I'm not honoring him.

671

:

If I'm not forgiving myself, you know,

it's kind of, in my eyes, it's, it's

672

:

somewhat disrespectful to God that he

laid down his life to forgive me for my

673

:

sins, for my wrongdoings, for my mess.

674

:

But it would be, selfish and self

centered of me to not forgive myself,

675

:

to put myself in a greater regard

than, Then he is, you know, cause

676

:

he's already told me it's over.

677

:

It's done.

678

:

It's you're forgiven.

679

:

So, but for a long time now that was hard

to do because I, I mean, I couldn't, I

680

:

couldn't apologize to my mom anymore.

681

:

I couldn't apologize to my dad.

682

:

He couldn't see me clean and

sober, you know, before he passed.

683

:

So, um, so yeah, that was difficult.

684

:

That was a challenge.

685

:

Track 1 - Michi J: this is very good.

686

:

I like everything you've brought up

now because relationships are the

687

:

most important like you said and a

lot of times we our relationships are

688

:

broken and our the main relationship

is with God, I would believe

689

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

right.

690

:

Track 1 - Michi J: and when we break off

relationships, we lose that intimacy.

691

:

We tend to run away from

we tend to hide and.

692

:

Run away from God instead

of running to him.

693

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Yeah, I, uh, I mean, I, I ran away from

694

:

him for years, you know, I mean, and

it's, it doesn't make sense when you

695

:

look back at it because here he is.

696

:

You know, blessed me with a

number of gifts, you know, um,

697

:

family, children, uh, at that time

properties, uh, successful career,

698

:

you know, and I wasn't, I wasn't, um,

699

:

showing my gratitude, you know,

I wasn't taking care of the

700

:

things that he entrusted me with.

701

:

You know, at the time when I should

have been, uh, closest to him, you know,

702

:

showing my appreciation and thanking

him for the many, many blessings

703

:

that he had given me, you know, um,

I was consumed with me and myself

704

:

and, and taking credit for, uh, the

things that I, that I had been given.

705

:

I got them for myself when in all

reality I had done nothing, you

706

:

know, he had provided them for me

707

:

Track 1 - Michi J: Yeah, we do live in

that delusion, at times, and it's a

708

:

lot of people still stuck there, I even

go in and out myself, I keep reminding

709

:

myself, and I like how you started

off, like, I am a recovering addict.

710

:

Maybe we all should say that.

711

:

And so we can keep reminding

ourselves that it's not us.

712

:

And.

713

:

Everything, everything is related to

the higher power in him, allowing us

714

:

to be able to do the functions that

we do, even the simplest of things.

715

:

And that keeps us in that keeps me and

I'm hearing it in , your conversation

716

:

as well, that this relationship

with, the higher power with God.

717

:

Because.

718

:

In our estimation, what we're seeing,

he's the only way and that's what your

719

:

recovery has, done from you is get you

right back to the nitty gritty and what's

720

:

really important and actually it's a,

I call that really a, a good thing that

721

:

happened to you, so to speak, because.

722

:

It actually brought you into a

right relationship and understanding

723

:

just how, just how weak you are.

724

:

Just how weak I am.

725

:

I've noticed myself.

726

:

, and that's, when you're

really alive and really.

727

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Amen.

728

:

Yeah, um, one of the things That

I've said for for the last three

729

:

years now is that God brought me

730

:

And N.

731

:

A.

732

:

has brought me back to God.

733

:

So, um, I'm, I'm very grateful for, for

the opportunity, for my freedom, for

734

:

my clean time, for the fellowship.

735

:

You know, , for HTR, you know,

um, I had lost all three of

736

:

my homes, , in my addiction.

737

:

And, um, when I was coming to the end of

my sentence, I, I didn't have anywhere

738

:

to go, you know, and, um, I had gotten

in touch with, , my old financial

739

:

advisor and, He was perplexed to say

the least to find out where I was and I

740

:

had mentioned to him that I was wanting

to pursue a faith based sober living

741

:

when I got released and He put me in

touch With, , LT Austin and Bob Wolf,

742

:

who, , had just recently, the year

before started HTR hope to restoration.

743

:

It was a blessing that,, God

put that on my heart to call.

744

:

Dan Detloff, and, I got in touch

with, LT and Bob, and, they came and

745

:

picked me up at Black River Falls,

three hours away, and, brought me to,

746

:

HTR, and I've been here ever since.

747

:

Track 1 - Michi J: Wow, this is , a great

comeback story and it's amazing what God

748

:

can do and take us at our lowest points.

749

:

So people in our audience, please

know it's, it's never too late.

750

:

You just turn to him and and he

was sending you the right people

751

:

and the people will come get you

752

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

Amen.

753

:

Track 1 - Michi J: So and you I believe

because of your experience it helps you

754

:

be relatable to everyone because everyone

have some sort of addiction and Just

755

:

hearing your story and how you got out.

756

:

I like how you mentioned that you're

much happier than when you were, you

757

:

had the money because we see people

all the time to have a lot of money.

758

:

They're never satisfied.

759

:

, they always want more.

760

:

Even though they have ton of stuff,

but , they're never satisfied.

761

:

,

GMT:

762

:

discriminate, , age, race, gender,

sex, sexuality, creed, you know, , , it

763

:

doesn't matter, I mean, anyone,

uh, anyone can, uh, can fall into

764

:

that grip, you know, at any time.

765

:

And like we talked on

in a number of areas,

766

:

so today three things I really try

and do or stay away from, you know,

767

:

certain people, certain places and

certain things, you know, um, I try and

768

:

stay connected with, the fellowship,

you know, , I try and give back.

769

:

I try and do service

work, here at the house.

770

:

We have a Bible study, you know, we're

connected with, with so many different,

771

:

positive opportunities and relationships

, success is, all about your determination,

772

:

you know, how bad you want something

and if you're willing to put the work

773

:

in to get it, and one of the things

that I've, I've, I've constantly

774

:

prayed for too, is that God does not

allow me to forget the pain and the

775

:

wreckage that I caused because I never

want to go back, to that way of life.

776

:

I constantly want to remember, the things

that I went through, the things that

777

:

I put other people through, I want to

remember the pain, you know, so it acts as

778

:

fuel for me to keep, my recovery first.

779

:

Track 1 - Michi J: I thank you so

much, Rob, for being here and talking

780

:

about recovery and how you actually are

successful at it and just giving us the

781

:

knowledge that you don't have to come

from a poor background, you can come

782

:

from a very successful background and end

up in this type of predicament because.

783

:

Anybody could be there.

784

:

So is there anything else you

want to say to the audience

785

:

before we wrap this up today.

786

:

GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:

I just want to say thank you, MeTJ.

787

:

I appreciate, , the opportunity, , to

share my story and, just keep God first,

788

:

you know, if you're struggling with a

substance, alcohol or drugs, you don't

789

:

have to use again, there's programs

out there, there's people out there

790

:

that, will help and support you, , and,

will help you with your recovery.

791

:

Track 1 - Michi J: ,thank you so much.

792

:

Thank you everyone for listening and may

you have a week filled with blessings..

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About the Podcast

Prisoner's Pardon
Prisoner's Pardon Trailer
A Prisoner’s Pardon, through storytelling, describes how prisoners are set free from physical and/or spiritual prisons (ex. Domestic & Drug Abuse) only via a pardon and not a reform program.

About your host

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Michi - J

Michi J is a Chicago native who now lives in the Milwaukee area. By day, she works as an energy-industry analyst; she spends her remaining hours pursuing her lifelong passion of exploring and proclaiming the coming Kingdom of Christ. Her fiction and non-fiction writing explores, through storytelling, the parallel existence of physical and spiritual laws. Her favorite authors include Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Charles Spurgeon, C.S. Lewis, A.W.Tozer, Dr. Tony Evans, Erwin Raphael McManus, and Kitty Foth-Regner.