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Published on:

13th May 2024

E57 - Breaking Free from a Prison Mentality - Guest Jamal Jivanjee

In this episode of 'A Prisoner's Pardon' podcast, host Michi J wraps up a discussion with former correctional officer turned life coach and bestselling author, Jamal Javan G. They delve into the concept of 'Living For a Living,' exploring how individuals, especially those incarcerated, can find true freedom and empowerment from within. Jamal shares insights on the perception of prison, personal empowerment, and how changing your internal dialogue and understanding can shift your reality, making freedom possible regardless of external circumstances. Through attention and intention, he highlights techniques for managing anger and transforming adversities into opportunities for growth. The episode emphasizes the power of internal change, self-examination, and how these approaches lead to a meaningful, liberated life.

00:00 Unlocking Inner Freedom: A Deep Dive

00:20 Welcome to the Prisoner's Part Podcast

00:41 From Correctional Officer to Life Coach: Jamal's Journey

01:14 Exploring the Concept of Living for a Living Inside Prison

01:53 The Illusion of External Control and the Power of Inner Freedom

05:11 Prison as a University: Learning and Growing Behind Bars

06:18 Shifting Perspectives: From Victim to Victor

11:30 The Power of Gratitude and the Law of Attraction

14:56 Coaching for Transformation: Breaking Free from Institutionalization

19:40 Harnessing Emotional Control

19:58 Understanding Triggers and Control

21:00 The Power of Intention and Focus

22:50 Manifesting Reality Through Belief

27:40 The Internal Journey of Healing

32:52 Empowerment Through Self-Examination

36:58 Closing Thoughts: Hope and Future Possibilities

Transcript
Speaker:

it's perception, the reality is, is that

people are in prison long before they

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come to prison because they tend to feel.

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Disempowered, limited, stuck.

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So we're in then an, now we're in

reaction mode or survival mode.

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That's prison.

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So prison happens first and foremost

internally, and so does freedom.

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Hello, and welcome to a

prisoner's part in podcast.

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I'm your host Meechie J.

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Today we are finishing up my

conversation with Jamal Javan, G the ex.

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Correctional officer who now has turned

life coach in also, he is a bestselling

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author of the book living for a living.

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Last week was an eye-opener on how

correctional officers view inmates.

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If you didn't get a chance to listen,

please go back and listen to how

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correctional officers are trained

and the uniqueness of their job.

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Jamal now goes into his perspective

as a life coach now and living

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for a living it how a person who

is in prison can also do that.

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Let's continue that conversation.

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Jamal Say they're inside and

you say a living for a living.

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What would you tell them?

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How would they live for a

living if they're incarcerated?

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I mean, is is it possible?

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I would always say not only is it

possible, it's actually, and this may

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sound crazy, It might even be easier,

you know, I'm not, I think so too.

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So go ahead.

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Why do you think so?

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Because the illusion is taken away.

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When you're locked up, when you're

behind bars, you know the illusion

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of what your life could be.

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You know, because people

outside, they think their life

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is all these things, right?

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Money and cars and houses and

all the stuff we get into.

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And that's really not the light.

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That's not the, and they're miserable.

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And so prison is perception, right?

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I always say you could live, you

know, in your, in your dream home.

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And if someone came to the door,

as they say, a police officer comes

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to the door and says, okay, but

you're under house arrest and you

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can't leave that, that dream home

suddenly becomes your prison, right?

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So it's perception, but the reality

is, is that people are in prison

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long before they come to prison

because they, they tend to feel.

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Disempowered, limited, stuck.

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So we're in then an, now we're in

reaction mode or survival mode.

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That's prison.

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So when you're locked up behind bars,

the illusion's taken away, right?

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So prison happens first and foremost

internally, and so does freedom.

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So to be free, what do you need?

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Well, freedom is simply consciousness

of your own power and your own choice.

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See, we're all sentenced to life.

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I always tell everybody, every

one of us is sentenced to life,

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and most people feel like they're

imprisoned to their circumstances,

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to their body, to their story.

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Everyone feels like a prisoner.

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Most people feel by default feel

like this is, I'm limited to this.

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So we're all sentenced to life.

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The question is, how do

you wanna deal your life?

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Sentence, right?

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You're, we all have life.

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How do you wanna do it?

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Do you wanna do it hard or

do you wanna do it easy?

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Do you wanna do it well?

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Do you wanna enjoy it?

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Because in this moment, Your experience

of this moment is an internal experience.

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Nobody can tell you how to do this moment,

no corrections officer can tell you

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that you can't be joyful in this moment.

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You can't enjoy your, your, your, your

experience of life in this moment.

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You can actually, if you learn how to

take control of the inner process, the

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inner process is the only thing you

actually have a hundred percent control

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over is your inner experience of life.

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Um, the illusion is that we have

control over other people, over

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situations outside of ourself.

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This causes us to feel disempowered.

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But whether you're outside of a prison

or inside of a prison, your inner

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experience of your own life is all you

have ever had control over, and it's

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all you will ever have control over.

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So if you can learn to take control

over your inner experience, you,

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you become liberated and free.

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It doesn't matter where you are.

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You could be standing outside in a forest,

you could be standing in a city, you

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could be inside of a prison, you know,

PR prison facility or outside of it.

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That makes no difference cuz the

external does not determine the

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internal, the internal is what determines

your quality of life and eventually

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will determine your external world.

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Hmm.

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So I agree with you that it's,

it can be an opportunity while

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they're there, um, to look, to

get out of what The survival mode.

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Mm-hmm.

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, they can get out of the survival

mode there and get into the

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living mode into living abs.

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Okay.

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Absolutely.

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Well see, I've known, I've known people

that were who, who were in prison and

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they chose to see it as a university.

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They chose, they actually made a choice.

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And they said, I am in, I'm in

university and I'm here to learn.

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This is a teaching.

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This, this entire time is here.

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I'm here to learn.

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You have, you have access

to a lot of people.

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They'll teach you if you pay attention

to people, people who are suffering,

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people who are disempowered, just watch

they'll, you can learn from their stories.

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You have access to information.

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Like you have time that

you've never had before.

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You don't have to worry

about paying the bills.

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You know where your

food's gonna come from.

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All that's provided for you.

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You can take a thank you.

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I'm gonna use this time

now to educate myself.

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You can read, you can learn how to

get in, get in touch with what you're

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feeling, why you're feeling what you're

feeling, where does that come from?

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And then how do you take control of that?

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How do you clear and heal the past?

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How do you begin to take advantage

of opportunities every day?

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Because if you can do it

there, you can do it anywhere.

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And that's what it's about.

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It's about learning how

to live, um, and your.

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Prison.

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There's a, there's a real, I

know it sounds when we focus

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on our lack of choice, right?

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We say, okay, I'm not,

don't choose to be here.

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Somebody the state, put me here.

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You know, the judge put me here.

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Whatever.

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Okay?

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Then we're gonna feel like a victim.

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We're gonna feel totally

disempowered, okay?

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Mm-hmm.

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. But if you shift it to, I've

been given a new lease on life.

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Uh, this is a reset.

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My life that led me here is over.

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Cuz the past, it's over, doesn't it?

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Where's always tell me, where's the past?

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You can't find it anywhere.

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It's only in your mind.

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It's just the memories of it.

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It doesn't exist.

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So literally, you, this is new,

this experience new the rest of your

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life is g is yet to be determined.

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It is going to be determined by

how you respond to this moment,

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this season that you're in.

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So you decide how you're gonna do life.

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Mm-hmm.

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, you're, you know, uh, we're all

sentenced to life, but how you

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do it is being created by you.

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We could do it well.

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Empowered free.

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Or we could do it with our focus

on all the things we don't control,

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which is all the external things.

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So none of us, whether we're in

prisoner or out, have control of

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the external worlds that we're,

that we are interacting with.

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The only world we have control

over is our internal environment.

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That's it is.

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So many people, I think Jamal don't get

that because they're trying to control

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it and that's why they're going nuts.

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, you know, cuz they're thinking

they can control something

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that's out of their control.

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That's not their job.

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I say I look at it that way.

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So you, I like how you turn the focus away

from I say the victim mentality and get

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them to understand that, uh, giving them.

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A conqueror mentality,

you know, I'm Christian.

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Mm-hmm.

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, and you know, I'll say things, say

that, uh, cuz I'm quoting word cuz he

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gives us, um, not the spirit of fear,

you know, and that is totally opposite

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from the word that's victim mentality.

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Because if you have, if you

have that victim mentality, you

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have no expectations but low.

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Right.

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So you switched the guy's mentality.

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It's almost like you turned a

switch on on him in there and he

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was like somewhere else already.

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And not just in that hole.

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And that's interesting

that you gotta talk.

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You um, had a ministry in the

hole, while they were in the hole.

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Mm-hmm.

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. So that is good to know they

can start their training inside.

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They don't have to wait to, oh, when

I get out I'm gonna do this and that.

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You know, it starts now . So, oh, if

it doesn't start now, it's not very

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gonna start because that's the, that's

the, I'll be happy when syndrome right

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people, I'll be happy when that day in

the fu It's like that day never comes.

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You know, I have a sign

on my, in my office here.

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It's, it's on the wall.

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It says today is the tomorrow.

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You talked about, oh, I like that.

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Today is, today you talk.

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It's the tomorrow.

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Oh, today, today is the, today is

the tomorrow that you talked about.

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You know, cause we, we, we

always say tomorrow I'll do this

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tomorrow in the future I'll do

this with, well, that's today.

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So it starts now and it's

amazing what can happen.

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W the, the where your life can lead.

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You know, I, I know folks that

were locked up in prison and

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had been for most of their adult

life that are now millionaires.

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That are living well, doing amazing

work in the world because of what they

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chose to do when they were locked up.

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Because they chose to get ahold of

their inner inner sense of being.

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And they, they chose that they were gonna

maximize life and they were chose, they

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chose to see prison as a university of

training for the rest of their life.

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And now they're living it.

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And it's, you know, easy people

like, oh, you're living lar, you

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know, look at how you're living now.

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It's all, I mean, it's like,

but that didn't start there.

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It started when they were doing time.

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Mm-hmm.

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, it's where, it's where their life started.

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And, and, and everybody, I always say,

the rest of the way you spend the rest

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of your life is gonna be determined

by what you do at this moment.

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And it's interesting that you say that,

that they became, um, very successful.

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Mm-hmm.

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and did anything else change?

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So they became successful in none

of these outward circumstances.

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Changed.

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Nothing changed.

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Nothing changed.

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They got outta, they, when they got

outta prison, they were living in a, you

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know, 200 square foot room with nothing.

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But he such gratitude

for life and existence.

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And when you have that kind of gratitude

and for life and you feel like this is

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a gift, you know, really life is a gift.

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It comes from the source, the divine God.

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You know, it's been given, it's

been entrusted to us and we, it's

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entrusted everybody, but we don't,

not everybody sees it or perceives

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it as that gift, but if you can start

seeing that this is a gift I'm alive

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today, what are you gonna do with it?

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You show up for it.

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You experience the fullness of

it, and you treat it as a gift.

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It's amazing what you can

make out of your life.

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Anybody you don't need,

you actually, it's free.

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You don't, so what?

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Yep.

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What you're saying is like

revenue revolutionary and.

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. So it's a gift and it's

the present, of course,

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Mm-hmm.

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. So it's the present.

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So if they are thankful, it gives

a new attitude and perspective,

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because I've seen it where when

you're thankful you're not wasteful.

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That's right.

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That that's right.

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You and, and, and, and

there, there's a principle.

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It's, it's a, it's like

the law of gravity.

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It's like the law of the universe.

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Mm-hmm.

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, it's the, the whatever

you give attention to.

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Mm-hmm.

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will flourish in the manner in which you.

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Of the, it's it, it will flourish

in the, in the context of the

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kind of attention you give to it.

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So when you give something attention,

if you see something as a gift, it will

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give back to you in that same manner.

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So what Jesus said that he said, give

and it will be given back to you,

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shaken together, press down, shaken

together, and running over in the same

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manner, in the manner in which you

judge it will be returned back to you.

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So it's, this is a principle of

this isn't the way life works.

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It's not really punishment or

reward as much as it's, this

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is just, it's like gravity.

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It's a principle.

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, yeah.

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It's just a law.

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It's like whatever, you know,

your reward is either good or

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bad, is just a re it is a reward.

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It's like sea time and harvest.

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So Totally.

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Yeah.

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So to say and reaping.

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Exactly.

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And if they get that pr, that principle

alone would change everything.

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. Totally.

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A hundred percent.

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Totally.

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So what you were saying, so they changed

their life and nothing changed af outside.

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It was just inside.

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And then, Hmm.

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That's it.

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That's where the whole world

is experienced, is inside.

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Mm-hmm.

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, it's, we never experienced

anything outside.

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Mm-hmm.

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. So our inner experience is always

internal, and that happens to be

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the domain where we have the most

control, is our internal experience.

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So again, it's a process.

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I, it's, this is, you know, it, it's a,

it's a, it's a, there is a process to it

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where we learn it's a practice, right?

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This is why there's certain things that

you end up putting into place in your

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life in a day in, day out basis that takes

time to, to, because we're all, you know,

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we all have tendencies and patterns, uh,

from the past, so from unconsciousness.

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So it's, it, it, again, that's

why I got into coaching work

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because it's, it's about helping

people learn a new way to be.

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It's, again, engaging in that process.

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So, you know, it requires patience.

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It's not an overnight process, but,

uh, it is a process and it, it, uh,

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always tell people it's the hardest.

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, easiest work you ever do.

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Meaning it's challenging to break

patterns, but it, it leads to a

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life of ease because again, mm-hmm.

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, it doesn't matter what's

happening out here.

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The ease is internal.

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Even Jesus said, with all the problems

that Jesus had in life, right?

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, he said, if you're tired and heavy

laid, and if you're burdened,

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learn from me because my yoke

is easy and my burden is light.

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That, so he's saying, this is the way I'm

experiencing life internally, easy and

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light, despite all the problems out here.

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So it's not about the external,

it never is what you gonna

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upset a lot of people there.

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Um, um, the cart, so to speak.

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So now I like what you're saying here

because this is like getting down to the,

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the nitty gritty, the principal themes.

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So as a coach, you have someone.

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That you're working with because what

you're, you're doing here, you're

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helping people not be institutionalized

because it's a lot of people that

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can naturally go into that without

understanding these principles.

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So if you were working with someone that

failed to get this information while they

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ran in and they're out now and they're

institutionalized, so to speak, what

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would you say to get them to see this

now that they can turn their life around?

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What would be the first thing you would

talk to someone who's just getting out?

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Totally.

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So, uh, first thing I, I, I like to

do is, is to increase, uh, awareness.

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So I, in my coaching work, there's

really two things that, that happen.

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Again, it's a process, so it's not,

doesn't happen quickly, but it's, the two

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things is attention and then intention.

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So, attention is awareness.

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So what we want to do is we wanna

start increasing our awareness

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because when you become more aware,

there's a separation that occurs.

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Uh, or I say there's a gap.

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So again, there's, the principle is that,

which is observed cannot be the observer.

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So, mm-hmm.

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, we've all had an

experience of anger, right?

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So when we get angry, if you're not aware

that you're angry, you can just be angry.

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and people, when they get angry,

they lose their consciousness.

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They actually lose

their mind, so to speak.

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Yes.

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. And then after anger subsides,

you go, , man, what did I say?

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What did I do?

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What happened?

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, that's when we have to come back and

say, I'm so sorry I said that, or, I'm

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so sorry I did that because we, I was

like, I don't know what I was thinking.

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Like, what were you thinking?

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Like I wasn't thinking.

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I, I, I was, I was kind of

taken for, I was taken over

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for a moment, taken for a ride.

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That anger took us forever.

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So first to wait, to wait to like

start, to start to empower yourself

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from that is start to pay attention.

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It sounds really easy

and cliche, but it's not.

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It's very profound.

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You start to realize what is it

that, what is it that's taking

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my freedom in this moment?

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Meaning what's key?

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What.

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Causes me to lose my, my control.

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Is it what?

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What makes me angry?

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Start paying attention to the

things that make me, I hate it

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when this person says this or hate

it when this person does this.

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I hate it when, you

know, whatever it may be.

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If you're locked up behind bars, it's

like, I hate this guard, or I hate

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when they do this, or I hate whatever

it may be, or this certain person.

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Like, pay attention to that because

that person is, is in control of you.

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Nobody wants to be controlled by anybody.

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I was like, but you wanna be free.

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You have to stop giving your power away.

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So start figuring out where, what's

making you angry because that's the

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people that have power over you.

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Then the second question is, why

have you given them that power?

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Cuz only you can give it.

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Typically just asking the question

what, why does this affect me?

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Because it is affect, it's okay to be

affected, but just start to realize why

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does this person or situation affect me?

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And here's what I tell people.

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It's never about that situation.

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It's always about the past.

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, your anger is rooted.

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The roots of your anger is in the past.

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Believe it or not.

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That's where it is because if you

didn't have the past, you had,

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this would just be a situation.

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It would just be somebody else's issue.

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But because it feels personal,

it's about your past.

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Where have I felt this previously?

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This kind of anger, and go back to that.

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Learn to see it.

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Just becoming aware of it.

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What happens is it, there's something

that happens, and this isn't conscious,

382

:

but it happens physiologically.

383

:

What happens?

384

:

As soon as you start getting

aware, this person makes me angry

385

:

because my dad was like that guy.

386

:

Oh, I felt this kind of anger with

my dad or my brother, or whatever.

387

:

Something happened in the past.

388

:

There is some connection or

else you wouldn't feel it.

389

:

So it's a trigger.

390

:

We can only, so nobody, and,

and this is a rule thumb, nobody

391

:

can make you feel anything.

392

:

How you feel comes from the inside.

393

:

Now people can trigger

you to feel some things.

394

:

Now, that's a key distinction, right?

395

:

Because if if you, if the energy wasn't

inside already you, they couldn't trigger

396

:

it, it wouldn't be there to be triggered.

397

:

So that's why Jesus said that which

corrupts a person is not from the

398

:

outside, it's on the inside, right?

399

:

Mm-hmm.

400

:

. Exactly.

401

:

Mm-hmm.

402

:

. It's learning to say, okay, let's clean

the inside of the cup so the out, don't

403

:

focus on the outside, focus on the inside.

404

:

Why is this affecting me?

405

:

If we focus on the outside, which

is that person or situation,

406

:

we're gonna be disempowered.

407

:

They're not the one

making you feel this way.

408

:

Mm-hmm.

409

:

, and this is, this is where we start to

take control of our life and go, okay.

410

:

I feel even just if you're angry, just

to say, I feel angry, not I am angry.

411

:

Mm-hmm.

412

:

, I feel angry just by

saying that it release.

413

:

the control.

414

:

So we're gonna, we're gonna go back.

415

:

I know you said at one point, but I

wanna go back a little bit because

416

:

like, we can't really control other

people unless they give us that ability,

417

:

and that's through triggering them.

418

:

I mean mm-hmm.

419

:

, I, I think about, remember Dennis

Rodman, uh, how he played ball and stuff?

420

:

Mm-hmm.

421

:

, he would get in the head, he would get

'em angry, and then that's when they would

422

:

make . They would make those mistakes.

423

:

So, totally.

424

:

And they would only, they were

then, he was then in control.

425

:

So, but that's only because

they gave him control.

426

:

So, but that's why.

427

:

, they're actually being imprisoned.

428

:

They allow themselves to be imprisoned

themselves by that when they get into that

429

:

anger, cuz they are no longer in control.

430

:

So that really explains the tension.

431

:

I like that.

432

:

So the other one you said is intention.

433

:

Intention?

434

:

Mm-hmm.

435

:

. Okay.

436

:

So intention.

437

:

Intention is simply, um, it's

connected to desire, right?

438

:

So how do I want to

experience this moment?

439

:

So it's that, that's, and that's takes

now, now that, you know, you can go

440

:

really deep with that in the sense

of intention is all, if we're gonna

441

:

give it a de definition, how you would

define intention is focused awareness.

442

:

Right?

443

:

It's focused awareness.

444

:

Mm-hmm.

445

:

, now intention is creating your.

446

:

, your life's experiences are

literally created through

447

:

intention focused awareness.

448

:

So where your focus goes.

449

:

The principle here, and this is

kind of said in the coaching world a

450

:

lot where focus goes, energy flows.

451

:

Mm-hmm.

452

:

. So where you put your focus is what you're

gonna energize, you're gonna create.

453

:

So the question is, make sure your

focus is on what you want it to be.

454

:

Because if your focus is on what you

don't want, that's what you're empowering.

455

:

So only empower what you

want, not what you don't want.

456

:

So that's, that's where fo that's why

we have to learn to shift our focus.

457

:

Now it intention is working for everybody.

458

:

It's just not working for us

until we get conscious of it.

459

:

Because for years, my focused

awareness was on things I didn't want.

460

:

And it was on, I don't wanna

experience this, I don't want this to

461

:

happen, I don't want this to happen.

462

:

It was very fear-based.

463

:

And so when we're driven by fear, our

focus is on the things we don't want.

464

:

And that tends to be the things

that happen because where

465

:

focus goes, energy flows.

466

:

So you have to, we have to learn to

shift our focus to what we actually want.

467

:

And that starts first and foremost

in the inner perception, beginning to

468

:

perceive what we want and experience

it as if it's already there before

469

:

it even physically manifests.

470

:

That's, but that's how we create mm-hmm.

471

:

the life we want.

472

:

And I tell you where this comes out.

473

:

I mean, it's powerful.

474

:

The, the, the, I remember listening

to a medical doctor talk about

475

:

this one time he was a, he had a

cancer patient that he was treating.

476

:

And this lady had come in and

she was, unfortunately, they

477

:

caught the cancer way too late.

478

:

And, uh, it was way beyond stage four,

so she really couldn't be treated.

479

:

Uh, it was, it was a terminal, but he

didn't tell her that, uh, for whatever,

480

:

I don't know exactly how they got

around this, but it was, she was a

481

:

candidate for what they call placebo.

482

:

Mm-hmm.

483

:

. So this doctor said, we have to, he

told her the truth, you know, you're

484

:

stage four is, is very aggressive.

485

:

He said, we have to start you in

aggressive chemotherapy immediately.

486

:

Mm-hmm.

487

:

. And when he told her that, she

said, okay, okay, I'll do it.

488

:

Whatever.

489

:

But it was a placebo.

490

:

He didn't tell her that

it was just nothing.

491

:

It was, it was no drug, but nothing.

492

:

Her hair fell out.

493

:

She started taking the

placebo, her hair fell out.

494

:

She started throwing up all the symptoms

of chemotherapy, but it was nothing.

495

:

It was a placebo.

496

:

And he realized in that moment,

like the power, like why?

497

:

Like she's literally

manifesting in her body.

498

:

Mm-hmm.

499

:

what she believed.

500

:

And it was just a placebo.

501

:

Because we have the power actually in our,

that we've been created in such a way that

502

:

how we perceive becomes manifest reality.

503

:

Like we're literally creators

imagination the power of imagination.

504

:

Yeah.

505

:

Yeah.

506

:

And if you think about it, you know,

from a spiritual perspective, if we're

507

:

made in the image and likeness of God,

which is what we're told, you know,

508

:

the scriptures that we're made in the

image and likeness, we go, what is God?

509

:

God's a.

510

:

So we're creating, when we look

at the world, the way the world

511

:

is, who's doing this ? We are.

512

:

So you're saying though, like

someone that's incarcerated or

513

:

you know, ha is in survival mode.

514

:

Their focus is wrong.

515

:

They're focusing on the wrong things.

516

:

And so that's where they're being led to

and all their actions because of Yeah,

517

:

and, and we could do, we could, we could

do the reverse engineering where we look

518

:

back at the past and go, this action led

to this action, which led to this action,

519

:

which eventually led to the incarceration.

520

:

Right.

521

:

So our that, that when it manifests

and shows up physically and the

522

:

physical space and time is always

the last stage of creation.

523

:

, we, we tend to focus on it

as if it's the first stage.

524

:

It's not, it's the last stage.

525

:

So if you want to change the reality,

you don't change the external.

526

:

That's the last thing that manifests.

527

:

You change the energy

and the focus internally.

528

:

That's when you're, you start to change

the world, get to the roots of it.

529

:

Mm-hmm.

530

:

, which is the spiritual,

because Absolutely, yeah.

531

:

The s spirit.

532

:

Spiritual is what makes up the physical.

533

:

That's the control area.

534

:

Mm-hmm.

535

:

is the internal.

536

:

Yeah.

537

:

I'm totally in agreement.

538

:

This is, uh, fascinating and I hope my

audience, you know, if you've been in,

539

:

if you are incarcerated, you know, if you

take in the things what Jamal just said

540

:

about attention and intention, so it's

like when they're responding to a guard,

541

:

their response will be different Now.

542

:

Absolutely.

543

:

Because yeah, the, the guard

only has external control,

544

:

but not internal control.

545

:

Hmm.

546

:

And, and, and that's the most important.

547

:

So, you know, you don't have to

give your power away to anybody,

548

:

a corrections officer, anybody.

549

:

You keep that power yourself

by choosing how to respond.

550

:

And then you're free, even though

you'll be physically incarcerated,

551

:

but you won't be spiritually or

mentally, so to speak, right.

552

:

Incarcerated because the totally,

and that's where your life is.

553

:

Your whole life is inside, inside you.

554

:

It's not out there.

555

:

So y you being in control of your

life, this is how you get control

556

:

over it and the actions, the way you

respond to not just prison guards,

557

:

but to everybody, everybody will

determine what your life becomes.

558

:

So you said attention, they got to

watch those triggers ex I call it

559

:

the science of examining and testing.

560

:

Yes.

561

:

Um, and looking at what's

actually triggering them.

562

:

And you said something from their past.

563

:

So yeah.

564

:

The way, the reason we feel a

certain way about something is

565

:

because we're being triggered.

566

:

That energy is inside

of us to get triggered.

567

:

Somebody may do something in a certain

way that triggers us, but that that

568

:

means it was already there before

that person said or did anything.

569

:

That means that energy was already

there, that anger was already there.

570

:

So the question's, where did it come from?

571

:

And it's usually the past,

something unresolved from

572

:

the past that's still there.

573

:

So there's another principle

that's very powerful in this

574

:

work, and that is what you feel.

575

:

You heal what you feel, you heal.

576

:

So if you can learn to feel it.

577

:

, there's a way to actually feel

anger in a way that actually

578

:

empowers you versus disempowers you.

579

:

So when you, let's say somebody says

something and really get, triggers you,

580

:

and you wanna attack them, or you wanna

fight 'em, or whatever it may be, okay?

581

:

So if you, if you lash out in that anger

at that person is disempowering because

582

:

what you're doing is you're saying

they're, they're the source of my pain.

583

:

They're not, they're just the trigger,

the source of your pain's inside of you.

584

:

So if you can go inside and

go, okay, what am I feeling?

585

:

When have I felt I actually asked the

question, when when's the earliest?

586

:

I can remember feeling this.

587

:

Have I felt this before?

588

:

Yeah.

589

:

When, and then memories will come,

memories will start coming to mind, oh,

590

:

I felt this way when so-and-so did this

in the past or whenever this happened.

591

:

Let's feel it.

592

:

So what do you do?

593

:

I, I like to ask people, where

do you feel it in the body?

594

:

It's a kind of a strange question.

595

:

, usually when you get angry, you feel it.

596

:

Either it's your chest, sometimes it's

your neck back, it's your head stomach.

597

:

Sometimes it's okay, wherever it is.

598

:

Io find it, it's find it.

599

:

Where is it in the body?

600

:

You take your hand, you put it there.

601

:

You just feel it.

602

:

And just take some, start, start doing

some deep pa like, tune into it, feel it.

603

:

The sensation, . Cause

what you feel, you heal it.

604

:

It's not pleasant, but it, what

you're doing is you're getting

605

:

present with it and you're letting

it, cuz it's trying to get out.

606

:

Mm-hmm.

607

:

, see, it's trapped energy in the body.

608

:

And it's the past trying to, it's

literally trying to get out because when

609

:

it, when it happened, maybe it was trauma

in the past, we weren't able to process

610

:

it then because we were, it wasn't safe.

611

:

Maybe we had to get out of the

situation quickly or whatever, and

612

:

we were in fight or flight mode.

613

:

That means we weren't equipped

to process it in the past.

614

:

But this is why it comes back up

because we're trying, your body's

615

:

literally trying to expel it.

616

:

. So the person who you think is your

enemy or nemesis that's triggering

617

:

you is actually your healer.

618

:

In reality, they're, they're being used

as a tool to trigger you to get this

619

:

energy to come up so you can release it.

620

:

It's, it, you know, it's kind of a crude

analogy, but let's say you eat bad food.

621

:

You know, if you eat bad food

immediately, the body's gonna

622

:

try to get it out, get rid of it.

623

:

Mm-hmm.

624

:

. So in order, but in order for

it to come out, it's gotta come

625

:

up and that's not pleasant.

626

:

Mm-hmm.

627

:

, it's part of the process though.

628

:

So you're saying, so sending emotions.

629

:

Thank you.

630

:

So adversity is part of the process, so

it's actually, it's a key to healing.

631

:

Yes.

632

:

It's an opportunity, so to speak.

633

:

Yep.

634

:

Okay.

635

:

That makes sense.

636

:

I like that too.

637

:

Um, so in your book,

living to To Live, right?

638

:

Living For Living.

639

:

Mm-hmm.

640

:

Living For Living, is

that in your book that.

641

:

Process you just went

through a little bit?

642

:

Not a lot of it.

643

:

, some of it is the, the book really

gets into the, it's more of a,

644

:

, examining these concepts from an

intellectual standpoint and also

645

:

my story of, of things that I did,

choices, decisions I made throughout.

646

:

So it kind, it's kind of there,

but it's more , in the format of,

647

:

uh, example, , it's really meant to

before, see, before these techniques can

648

:

actually have it have its proper effect.

649

:

We almost have to change our way

of thinking about certain things

650

:

because most people honestly are

still convinced that my salvation of

651

:

my solutions are gonna come out here.

652

:

Mm-hmm.

653

:

. And they don't, this is why

it's an internal reality.

654

:

This is why Jesus said the kingdom of.

655

:

Is within you.

656

:

Right?

657

:

It's in here.

658

:

It's not out there.

659

:

Yeah.

660

:

That's, that was news to people.

661

:

It's temple.

662

:

Mm-hmm.

663

:

. Yep.

664

:

. So you have to shift your, like

even the word repentance, you know,

665

:

if we're gonna use that language,

like, like Jesus, the first thing

666

:

he would always say is, repent.

667

:

Because the kingdom of heaven is a

hand, which I know that can sound

668

:

weird to some people, but the

word actually means repentance.

669

:

Means to change your mind.

670

:

Yeah.

671

:

Turn around.

672

:

Mm-hmm.

673

:

, it's a shift.

674

:

It's a shift in the mindset, the thinking.

675

:

And if that has to come first,

because the mind will block you

676

:

from being able to move into this

work, the mind will actually,

677

:

will actually throw up roadblocks.

678

:

Like, uh, that's easy for you

to say, but this person out

679

:

here , blah, blah, blah, blah.

680

:

Or this situation out here is

my, the reason I'm suffering.

681

:

And it, it'll try to assign

that kind of blame because our

682

:

thinking has not changed yet.

683

:

That it took me a l it took me personally

years to realize I was creating my pain.

684

:

Unconsciously.

685

:

Mm-hmm.

686

:

, that's a hard one because it

felt like blame, but it's, it's

687

:

not about blame, it's just about

realizing the power we have.

688

:

Right.

689

:

We are so powerful.

690

:

We can create powerlessness.

691

:

Right.

692

:

When someone says I can't do this.

693

:

That's right.

694

:

Because that's how powerful you are.

695

:

. You create that reality.

696

:

Yeah.

697

:

So that's how it's so bad

when people don't have hope.

698

:

Mm-hmm.

699

:

, it's you.

700

:

You won't be able to create anything.

701

:

You won't be able to do anything cuz

hopelessness don't have anything.

702

:

There's nothing in

there to create with, so.

703

:

Right.

704

:

You need something to create with.

705

:

So I really like this.

706

:

So if someone wanted to be involved

in just being coached by you, how

707

:

would they get in touch with you?

708

:

Yeah, the best, the best way is

probably through just practically

709

:

speaking, is through the website.

710

:

Mm-hmm.

711

:

So I have a website and then my website

is, uh, the links to my book is there.

712

:

I have a podcast that's there and

also the coaching, um, journey.

713

:

All of that is there and

how to get in touch with me,

714

:

contact all that stuff's there.

715

:

And my website is Jam Jamal,

it's just my first and last

716

:

name, so it's jamal joji.com.

717

:

Okay.

718

:

I'll put that in the show notes.com.

719

:

So, because I, , I think your

background it, that, even though at

720

:

first it looked all kind of fuzzy

is like , it's, you know, having,

721

:

you know, um, cuz you can speak to.

722

:

People from Islam as well as Catholics

and from a prison perspective

723

:

and give this coaching and you

can really reach a lot of people.

724

:

So that's why I was wanting to know

how people can come alongside with

725

:

you if they wanted to work more

with you and get this coaching.

726

:

I love his hat.

727

:

I know people can't see that he has

this, it looks like, is that a Red Cross

728

:

hat or it's, it's like it's averted.

729

:

It's sim.

730

:

Yeah, it's similar.

731

:

Is looks like the Red Cross,

but it is actually a Swiss flag.

732

:

I have a friend from Switzerland

that came to visit and he brought

733

:

me that, that's their flag.

734

:

Uh oh.

735

:

But it looks just like the Red Cross

and that's why I wear it actually.

736

:

Okay.

737

:

Because it, it's a reminder

of my, of my purpose.

738

:

I think so too.

739

:

That's what I got from like the image,

you know, with you talking about, you

740

:

know, taking your pulse and trying

to figure out where the pain is.

741

:

I like that.

742

:

Um, I like that demonstration and

just showing people really just

743

:

how to, how to examine themselves.

744

:

Like how women would, , check for

breast cancer or some sort of lump or

745

:

something that we should be also doing

that sort of a thing, um, with other

746

:

types of pain and paying attention

to our pain and being in the moment.

747

:

We miss so much, like you said, cuz

we're not in the present mm-hmm.

748

:

. Um, and that's how we just

don't focus on what we can do.

749

:

So that's part of a, I think how,

um, Why it's so bad to be not focused

750

:

and just having all that distraction

because this culture kind of has

751

:

that everywhere from on a computer

to popups, um, your phone ringing.

752

:

Um, it's so, it's so easy for people to

get in touch with you now cuz you carrying

753

:

your phone and they can always, you can

text you, email you, you know what's up.

754

:

You, it's so many ways they

can get, they can reach you.

755

:

It's like, I look at that as like,

sometimes you just need to be in a quiet

756

:

place and I think that's one of the reason

why I think that people in prison can

757

:

look, find those opportunities, those

places of opportunities that they have.

758

:

I'm not saying it's fortunate so much that

they're there, but utilize what you do

759

:

have there because people on the outside

normally don't have, have that time.

760

:

So is there anything else you wanna.

761

:

Say to the audience, what

big statement would you say?

762

:

, I, I really thank you for being here.

763

:

That's being a life coach.

764

:

I think you're perfect for the

position and I'm pretty sure

765

:

people are gonna contact you just

because of you give the, the care.

766

:

, people listen to people who

they feel that care about them.

767

:

So I, I know you're

gonna make a big impact.

768

:

Mm-hmm.

769

:

So what statement would you have,

, big statement would you, , have

770

:

for people that's in prison, outta

prison, whether it's, , a family

771

:

member of someone, , that's in prison?

772

:

What would, what would you

say to them as a coach?

773

:

Hmm.

774

:

, well, thank, first of all, I just wanna

say thank you for, , just the generosity

775

:

you've extended for me to be on your show.

776

:

It's, I really have enjoyed being with you

and having this conversation, and I would

777

:

tell people, That are listening to this.

778

:

And I would just say, you know, and I,

I've, I've, my years of experience have

779

:

shown me that everything's on purpose.

780

:

There are no coincidences or accidents.

781

:

Your life is not an accident.

782

:

Your, your being here in this

moment is not an accident.

783

:

If it, if your life didn't

matter, you wouldn't be here.

784

:

And you are here right now and

you're listening to this because

785

:

you are meant to listen to this.

786

:

And it's because your future

is dependent upon this moment.

787

:

And what you do with it, and it's, and you

are literally in control of this, is the,

788

:

you know, God has given you the keys, , to

this quote unquote internal reality, this

789

:

internal kingdom that's been given to you.

790

:

And, , your hope is

found, , in that place.

791

:

And so it may sound cliche, but

, there's a bright future in front of

792

:

you because the future is literally

contingent upon the power that you

793

:

have in this moment, which is infinite.

794

:

And, it's okay that you may not see that

or near, or or experience that in the f

795

:

in the fullness as it is in this moment.

796

:

But just pay attention to this moment.

797

:

And then I always like to tell

people, what's your takeaway?

798

:

You know, what is your one

takeaway from this conversation?

799

:

Probably, there's probably been

several things, but if you can just

800

:

boil it down, what's your one takeaway

and just chew on that for a while,

801

:

get clear about it, chew on it.

802

:

You don't have to worry

about what to do with it.

803

:

It will take root in you and it

will sprout and give life to,

804

:

and it'll just happen naturally.

805

:

Wow.

806

:

Yes.

807

:

Thank you.

808

:

And you even have the

voice of meditation too.

809

:

Like you could just listen and be

like, oh, I'm in all in that moment.

810

:

, I have to open my eyes.

811

:

Okay.

812

:

Yeah, I'm, I'm doing a podcast, Michelle.

813

:

Okay.

814

:

Doing that now.

815

:

But this is a great show.

816

:

I really enjoyed you, Jamal,

and I'm pretty sure the

817

:

audience enjoyed you as well.

818

:

So thank you for being here.

819

:

And you all make sure you hit

Jamal up and tell 'em Mechi

820

:

j sent you from a prisoner's.

821

:

Pardon.

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About the Podcast

Prisoner's Pardon
Prisoner's Pardon Trailer
A Prisoner’s Pardon, through storytelling, describes how prisoners are set free from physical and/or spiritual prisons (ex. Domestic & Drug Abuse) only via a pardon and not a reform program.

About your host

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Michi - J

Michi J is a Chicago native who now lives in the Milwaukee area. By day, she works as an energy-industry analyst; she spends her remaining hours pursuing her lifelong passion of exploring and proclaiming the coming Kingdom of Christ. Her fiction and non-fiction writing explores, through storytelling, the parallel existence of physical and spiritual laws. Her favorite authors include Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Charles Spurgeon, C.S. Lewis, A.W.Tozer, Dr. Tony Evans, Erwin Raphael McManus, and Kitty Foth-Regner.